Body Positioning Question

My dads bike had some troubles and he is doing some last minute work before we head out for a 2 hour ride but in the meantime I watched some body positioning vids and put my bike on the pitbull to play around with them.

This video seems to be the best and most simple.

Only thing that I couldnt seem to figure out, with the knee out position he demonstrates how does he really hold his lower body to the bike? Yes, your outside leg has plenty of space to push on the bike but the inside knee and thigh is completly seperated from the tank.

I dont want to drag knee so I am assuming the knee out is not totally necessary, even with my slick textile pants (stomp grips coming any day now) I could do it much easier if I shifted my waist over and left both knee's hugging the tank.

Might place my body into a slightly more twisted position but overal would reduce weight on the clip ons.

Im not really (yet) looking to work on body positioning to gain more ground clearance for faster cornering, but I do want to have it more available and also I want to see if it makes a difference to the input necessary to turn the bike.

I know a bike wont turn without bar input (Keith Codes No B.S. bike) but I have heard that by moving your weight to the inside of the turn you wont need as much effort at the bars.

Originally Posted by jraice

YouTube - body positioning

My dads bike had some troubles and he is doing some last minute work before we head out for a 2 hour ride but in the meantime I watched some body positioning vids and put my bike on the pitbull to play around with them.

This video seems to be the best and most simple.

Only thing that I couldnt seem to figure out, with the knee out position he demonstrates how does he really hold his lower body to the bike? Yes, your outside leg has plenty of space to push on the bike but the inside knee and thigh is completly seperated from the tank.

I dont want to drag knee so I am assuming the knee out is not totally necessary, even with my slick textile pants (stomp grips coming any day now) I could do it much easier if I shifted my waist over and left both knee's hugging the tank.

Might place my body into a slightly more twisted position but overal would reduce weight on the clip ons.

Im not really (yet) looking to work on body positioning to gain more ground clearance for faster cornering, but I do want to have it more available and also I want to see if it makes a difference to the input necessary to turn the bike.

I know a bike wont turn without bar input (Keith Codes No B.S. bike) but I have heard that by moving your weight to the inside of the turn you wont need as much effort at the bars.

Your inside foot is on the inside peg...Not sure if that answered your question. I generally think that body position changes are only needed if you are running out of clearance and even then one could put out the mick doohan or troy bayliss arguement who have a more old skool riding style...that has been extremely successful.

The difference is that they are bayliss and doohan and we are not. My advice to most people when they want to learn about body position is to just make sure that they are trying to offset the combined center of gravity. Most of guy's mass is in their upper body so that is the most important part to offset along with the head. The lower body doesnt really do anything so it should really just stay put.

I was told to kiss the mirrors and pretty much I think that is sound advice. Just dont scoot your butt off the seat and do it with your upper body only.

There are plenty of ways to ride so and many different body types with different styles...so no one way will work with everyone.
Iunno just my opinion.

I asked a lot of questions when I was learning, and I think the most important answer I got was to steer with my arms, not hang on with them. If you push down with your outside foot, and drive your knee up into the tank, it keeps your arms totally free to steer. I thought I heard the instructor say that you want to steer the bike with your legs. That is false. You can jump around on the pegs all you want, but if you're not turning the bars, the bike is going straight.
I used to hang way off the bike, but my outside arm would end up straight across the tank which doesn't give you a whole lot of strength on the bar. It's hard to explain without showing you, but the idea is to get your body off to the side, but try to keep your arms even so you can make steering adjustment through the turn as needed. I learned this at a track with a high speed decreasing radius. I kept running wide cause I'd set the bike on a line, but felt like I had no lean left to tighten up as the turn did. A racer buddy gave me a little tutorial on what I just told you, and I could get the bike leaned over as much as I needed but putting a bit more pressure on the inside bar which i could now do because I wasn't hanging on with my arms.

Originally Posted by Shortyr6

a knee down only looks cool. has no real benefit other than judging lean angle.

a bike will turn with no bar input. test it. just look where you want to go and lean, it will go where you look.

ummm. no it won't.
test it without your hands on the bars.
Not trying to start an argument, I just know from specific experience.

By looking and leaning, you're putting pressure on the bars, making the bike turn without realizing what you're doing.
The bike works better when you know what inputs do, so you can target those inputs when you need to. For instance, your arms should be 90* to the forks so that all of your strength is being used to turn the wheel instead of some being wasted on pushing the bar down to the side.

And yeah, the real benefit of draggin knee is to tell you where the road is, so you know how much lean angle you have left to use. The side benefit is that it looks damn cool.

Originally Posted by Shortyr6

a knee down only looks cool. has no real benefit other than judging lean angle.

a bike will turn with no bar input. test it. just look where you want to go and lean, it will go where you look.

Originally Posted by R6Pirate

Ummm yeah it will, i can prove you wrong, no problems. I have ridden down canyons with absolutely no steering input just body/weight. I see people that ride, making all steering inputs with their arms and they always come in tired, complaining that their hands are going numb and with callous' on their palms. I am not saying i can go fast down a canyon with no hands, just saying body weight plays a large part in steering input. I have had a whole group of people follow me down a canyon that can attest to no hand steering just to prove keith codes "no B.S." theory wrong...i am also not saying i am better than keith code (far from it) just that i don't agree with this theory of his. The point is to keep your arms and hands as relaxed as possible. I will see if i can get someone to tape me doing this...

As far as body positioning, I stick with the one cheek off kiss the mirror method. Knee is there to judge angle although some people plant that down when it is not necessary just to look cool. I do it for the camera although sometimes even though i dont have to.

I don't believe you, because that doesn't make any sense.
If you can do it with no steering input, then you can do it with no hands.
Your buddies are getting sore arms because they're gripping the bars too tight. that's a whole other issue.

You can make very small adjustments with no hands, but you cannot dive into a corner without them. When you're riding straight and take your hands off to stretch your arms, you go straight, but if you move your body around a bit, the bike will lean a little. It will not turn enough for a corner though.

I don't know why I'm getting resistance about this. Instead of riding with no hands, how about riding with the intention of just using your hands. Ride up to a corner, and do nothing with your body. For a right hander, do absolutely nothing with your body except push with your right hand. take your left hand off the bar completely, and just sit there. you'll see that the bike turns. I won't recommend trying that with no hands, because you'll end up going straight into something while you're trying to lean the bike over with your body.

You're not as good as Keith Code. You should listen to people who know more about things than you do, because that's how we learn. I'm trying hard to not sound like a dick so you actually try it and become a better rider. Give it a try not to prove me right, but to make yourself better at something you love.

If you don't want to try the way I mentioned, then you have to post up a pick of you railing through a corner with your hands off the bars....or you're a tranny who rides a donkey.

Also, you hang off the bike to get your weight low and not need as much lean angle as you would if you're on top of the bike. You're not holding the bike down, you're holding the steering there without realizing what you're doing. If you step back and piece together what you're actually doing, you can improve because you know what adjustments to make. If you ride with the attitude that you're naturally awesome, you'll find the limit of you're awesomeness is really low compared to someone who is willing to learn something.

Originally Posted by R6Pirate

I can go down a canyon with my hands out like i am trying to cross a highwire; i used to do this all the time...i dont see why you think its impossible. I'll re itterate the fact that


Dude, i dont understand why it is so hard for you to believe this? I have done it, and have had people there so i can back up my claim. You do come off as a dick, there is no need to get as excited as you are about this.

I still don't believe you.
I sound like a dick, cause I am a dick. I was trying not to, but I can't help it even when I know I'm doing it. lol
I don't think I'm getting excited. Your claims just seem ignorant, and I'm trying to open your eyes to reality.

Posting a vid of yourself going through a corner with your arms out will have me eat my words. I'll print this thread out and eat it for realz! I don't care how fast you're going, but if you're telling me you can turn a bike without pushing on the bars... without proof, all I can call you is a fool.