Skill vs Judgement

What is the difference between good riding SKILLS and good riding JUDGEMENT? Which do you think is more important and can you have one without the other?

Misti

Good Skills - Being able to dive in under or over someone at the track and overtake as one example.

Good Judgement - Knowing whether or not you really should. Is it a track day and not a race? Should I really pass this guy so tightly? Prob not in most cases, cuz you aint gettin a trophy at the checkered flag. Having good judgement here I think walks hand in hand with skills, because if you make that good judgement, you need to apply your skills elsewhere to make things happen as you want.

I think these items walk hand in hand with a LOT of aspects of riding, not just passing someone at the track, I just used that as an example...

A rider acquires skills through practice, building muscle memory.

A rider acquires good judgment through experience, advice, and a proper attitude.

I see judgment as an extension on an intimate understanding of your skills. As your skills improves, the calls (judgment) you make on the track become more finely tuned.

Originally Posted by dzuyd

I see judgment as an extension on an intimate understanding of your skills. As your skills improves, the calls (judgment) you make on the track become more finely tuned.

This is interesting and I agree in some ways. I think for some people this is true, good skills help finely tune good judgement. But, a lot of people would argue that as skills improve, judgement goes out the window. A rider comes back from a riding school or track day and believes that their newly acquired skills make them invincible on the street, or during their next track day and they begin riding over their head....

Which do you think is more common, skill = better judgement or skill=loss of judgement? Can you share any personal examples?

Misti

I guess that is where the true variable comes in, the rider. But riders attitude evolves too, (a variable variable if you will ... ) I do agree that most start off thinking their newly acquired skills make them invincible, or rather.... the jump in skill-level is so exponential that their enthusiasm overpowers their judgment. They don't think that they are invincible; they just momentarily forget that they are fallible.

Some examples:

A while back when I first started riding canyon, I knew and understood that I was a new rider. But with tips from my much very faster friends, my skills improved dramatically. I still knew I could fall of the cliff an any moment, but that fact took a second seat to the fact that I was getting faster, but could be even more so!

It was a very exciting time. My last true "care-free" canyon run was in big bear. I remember thinking, "Ok, I know I can go faster, lets see what I can do on the next turn." It resulted in a low-side, with my body being slammed into a guardrail, which prevented me from falling off the cliff. I stood up from that crash not knowing what went wrong.

skill=loss of judgment? absolutely. I can see that direct connection.

I took a hiatus from the canyons and stuck to the streets (commuting). Gave me a lot of time to humble myself.

Fast forward to my track riding days. I remember my first day on the track, it was Cali Speedway (awesome day btw). It felt like the first day going on that canyon run. I hadn't touch aggressive riding (canyon) for over a year. A nervous wreck. This time around I took it slow. First few sessions to re-asses my skill, then later sessions, making judgment calls to further improve those skills.

skill = better judgment ? nah... more like experience = better judgment = skill.

I haven't crashed on the track (yet), but when I do, I know I'll have a better idea of why. That is how better judgment helps, I think.


With that said, I think it is first mostly 1.skill/bad judgment, then eventually 2.skill/better judgment.

^ Good post, Deezy.

For me, improvements in my skills directly correlated to improvements in my judgment. Sometimes they were directly connected, sometimes it was lucky coincidence, I think.

Awhile after I first had my bike, I was riding country twisties pretty aggressively, in an ill-fitting suit I had bought second hand. Like a lot of new riders, I was trying like hell to put a knee down, and it finally happened (by accident) on a decreasing-radius left-hander in Kentucky. Increased skill, but still not so great judgment.

A short time after that, I was on another twistie ride, and was overcooking it into turns, losing concentration, and generally riding poorly. It wasn't even very fun. An older, wiser, much faster fellow rider took me aside and asked me what was wrong, recommended I throttle back, and suggested a track day. A few weeks later, I took him up on it, and it changed my riding life.

After the track day (where I was painfully slow, but still put my knee down with some regularity), I went back to those twisties in Kentucky. Only this time I was looking at fence posts, mail boxes, ditches, barbed wire, gravel... And riding much further within my limits. Increased skill, better judgment.

At some point, a thorough understanding of your skills as a rider will increase your awareness of your riding. A good, mature rider will use that awareness to enhance his (her) judgment about what he (she) should be doing, rather than simply what he (she) could be doing.

to me i would say judgment is really almost maturity. not necessarily age or experience but maturity in making your decisions while riding. a mature rider will not put himself in a situation that will increase his likelihood of something bad happening.

Originally Posted by CephasGT

^ Good post, Deezy.

For me, improvements in my skills directly correlated to improvements in my judgment. Sometimes they were directly connected, sometimes it was lucky coincidence, I think.

Awhile after I first had my bike, I was riding country twisties pretty aggressively, in an ill-fitting suit I had bought second hand. Like a lot of new riders, I was trying like hell to put a knee down, and it finally happened (by accident) on a decreasing-radius left-hander in Kentucky. Increased skill, but still not so great judgment.

A short time after that, I was on another twistie ride, and was overcooking it into turns, losing concentration, and generally riding poorly. It wasn't even very fun. An older, wiser, much faster fellow rider took me aside and asked me what was wrong, recommended I throttle back, and suggested a track day. A few weeks later, I took him up on it, and it changed my riding life.

After the track day (where I was painfully slow, but still put my knee down with some regularity), I went back to those twisties in Kentucky. Only this time I was looking at fence posts, mail boxes, ditches, barbed wire, gravel... And riding much further within my limits. Increased skill, better judgment.

At some point, a thorough understanding of your skills as a rider will increase your awareness of your riding. A good, mature rider will use that awareness to enhance his (her) judgment about what he (she) should be doing, rather than simply what he (she) could be doing.

Good posts! I especially like this last paragraph where you mention an UNDERSTANDING of your own skills and how that helps with your riding awareness. I think a lot of people miss out on this because they don't take the time to really analyze their riding to gain and understanding of it.

When I first started riding I took to it really fast and naturally and was able to ride really fast. People told me I was a great rider and I thought I had good skills...I even thought I was making good judgement both on the street and while racing.

However, a great sponsor of mine decided to send me to the California Superbike School as a student because it was apparent to him that I didn't really know what I was doing. ( I never took any riding classes and I made a lot of mistakes at the race track) After taking all four levels of the school I realized that I had been riding fast but without the necessary skills to get and keep me out of trouble. It was getting by, and I was lucky that my poor judgement didn't result in any major crashes or serious injury.

What I learned in the school was that I really needed to analyze my riding and work a little bit at a time to improve it. We started with steering, I was stiff and working too hard to get the bike turned, so little by little we worked on getting me to relax and "go with the bike". I started to get it turned faster with less effort and I started to realize how important that skill could be on the street (in emergency situations) and on the race track (to get me into the turn quicker). Then we worked systematically on other aspects of my riding.

Just working on improving my skill and my AWARENESS of my own riding ability had a huge effect on my judgement and immediately after the school I slowed it down on the street, worked on my skills and worked on riding BETTER, not faster. Same thing on the track, I broke down the corners, I worked on one thing at a time, I analyzed any mistakes I made so I would hopefully not make them again and was able to faster while riding better during the races.

CephasGT makes a great distinction about how "A good, mature rider will use that awareness to enhance his (her) judgment about what he (she) should be doing, rather than simply what he (she) could be doing.

So how do you get a rider to gain better awareness of their own riding? Schools, track days, friendly advice, books, videos??? How do YOU better your own awareness of your riding skills?

Misti