Trust your tires - a basic visual explanation - 56k beware - big pics

I know a lot of riders don't trust their tires as much as they should.

I've seen a lot of threads asking about how far it's possible to lean a bike over or if it's possible to go past the edge of the tire. Furthermore, I've seen thread accidents where riders, under duress, because they entered a corner too hot, decide to stand the bike up as opposed to leaning it over some more to make the turn. On top of that, many try to determine their lean angles by their chicken strips, or unworn parts of their tires towards the sidewalls for the noobs, which in any case can mean a number of things including good lean to just really bad body positioning. This really isn't the way to go. So, I've decided to post some pictures about how easy it is to use all of a street tire without incident and, at, least somewhat, how much lean is possible.

Granted this is at a race track where many possible accident causing variables are diminished, but I think it still shows the basic lean angles a sport bike is able to achieve without problems. I ride an 04 R6 with minimal modifications and Michelin 2CT tires. I'm certainly not an expert and am clearly aware that I don't have optimal body positioning, but I do ride in the A group of track days and the below photos show the basic lean that sportbikes are able to generate - even on cold street tires:



Here is a slow warm up lap pic with very cold tires:




Notice that even though I'm not leaned over very far, the rear tire is already at its edge.





Here is a pic from the next lap from the same place. Notice how much more lean angle was available despite the rear already being on the edge during the first lap.





I certainly don't recommend for anyone to go out on the public roads and immediately try cranking their bike over really far. It's best to learn how you can lean her over progressively and slowly at a race track or at least an empty parking lot - and please always be smooth with the throttle. But should a need arise where you have entered a corner too hot, chances are that you have much more lean angle available and should try to make the turn rather than standing the bike up and going on an off road adventure.

If anyone whats to add or just comment, please go ahead.

solid info, can't really experienced riders tell how well suspension is set up based on your tires and some other feedback like that as well. like you can be the best rider in the world, but if your suspension is set up shitty, then you can't ride anywhere close to your potential.

Originally Posted by Pepe

solid info, can't really experienced riders tell how well suspension is set up based on your tires and some other feedback like that as well. like you can be the best rider in the world, but if your suspension is set up shitty, then you can't ride anywhere close to your potential.

That's all true, but for the practical purposes in which this thread was created, it doesn't matter as much. Even without top suspension components or an optimal set up, it's more than possible to really crank a bike over - assuming the road is clean and especially when the tires are warmed. At the time of the pics above, I don't think my sag was even set up properly let alone having the correct spring rates on or having them set up correctly. Sure, it makes it easier and far less dramatic to ride near the limit of traction with a good set up but its not really needed for the typical street ride.

^ I'd say that's true. For more normal riding and even low to mid pack track day riding, the stock suspension set just exactly the same as it came from the factory is more than enough. Really if you're having trouble and blaming stock suspension it's probably you. Now if you're chasing lap times, that could different story.

One thing to note about "side of tire" is that once you reach the edge, you still have plenty of contact patch. Some riders notice c-strips on say the front, but not the rear. That's because the rear get's the the edge sooner in the corner. Front tire is a much better indicator, after that use the knee to judge the distance so you really don't run out of contact patch.

AWESOME thread! i vote sticky!!!

Awesome post, Dvas, thanks for contributing! This is really, really solid advice for newer riders, and advice that many of us could have used when we were new. If all riders understood this when they started riding, far fewer people would go out and wad their shiny brand new sportbikes, IMO.

Originally Posted by Dvas

But should a need arise where you have entered a corner too hot, chances are that you have much more lean angle available and should try to make the turn rather than standing the bike up and going on an off road adventure.

Just to add, when considering a panic/possible wreck scenario, think about this: Even if you think that you don't have enough lean angle or traction left to try and make the corner, you probably do. But let's say, hypothetically, that you really don't have enough left, and you're going to crash. I can tell you from experience that it is FAR less painful and costly to lowside your bike and slide on the road a bit, than it is to stand it up and take your chances hitting a tree/oncoming traffic/fence/wall/giant slab of fail. Always have a crashing strategy that results in the lowest amount of pain, is my point. If you think you're gonna lowside, then lowside. It beats the hell out of the alternatives.

Originally Posted by YZFDave

Heres where I need advice........last week, still cold out, I was coming around a big long left bend of a corner in the left lane, leaning just a enough at about 75-80mph, when a gust of wind took me on the inside and started pushing me towards the right lane, as I tried to lean into it more, I felt the back tire slip....I panicked and went vertical, and eased of the throttle(no brake) coming within a few feet of hitting the shoulder in the right lane. What would have caused that slip of the back tire? and did I react to it the right way?

Could have been a variety of things. There could have been somethign on the pavement, a wet spot or a tar strip or something you didn't notice, that didn't affect your traction until you increased your lean angle a bit. Also, fighting wind on a bike produces some rather strange and unnatural feelings for a rider. You have to remember that the bike, and to a larger extent your body, acts like a sail in the wind. A crosswind like you described will move your body more than the bike quite often, which, unless you're prepared for it, will affect your steering inputs, and thus the actions of the bike. For instance, in the scenario you described, the gust of wind could have likely caught your upper body and moved you over on the bike slightly, weighting the outside of the bike in the turn, causing you to run wide. Also, if your arms are not loose, that will cause you to inadvertently push on the outside bar, effectively steering the bike out of the turn, rather than what you had intended.

But I digress. The cause of your rear tire slip was likely just a pavement defect or the like, but can be easily dealt with, as long as you stay calm and in charge of the bike, rather than the other way around.

Good points on all... when you get to the edges and push your track tires the way theyre supposed to be push, they start to ball up and it looks pretty nifty